18 March 2006

wo- man

so here is the issue i am battleing right now:
the role of the woman in church and leadership.
there are some hefty trash-bags full of the garbage people are throwing my way right now. so i take it to my blog as a forum for discussion. anyone have something to say t0o this topic?


At 10:21, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Not surprised. That's a long-term church issue. Can you give details/specific issues within this big issue?


At 06:52, Blogger Kelly said...

I've twice sat down now to write out massive amounts of scripture related to this subject. Both times I have failed to write adequately, and, thankfully, both times God has deleted my efforts by causing my computer to reboot.

So, I will ask this, and say nothing unless specifically responded to :
Do nuns preach?

At 04:43, Blogger cate mcmillan said...

i dont know any preaching nuns. i do know teaching nuns.

so the abreviated current issue is this:
there is a very [hmm..how to form this in an open and non-degrating manner..] conservative man [A] who is preaching to one of the people i disciple [B] on a rather daily basis. [A] is telling [B] that [B] needs to be obiedient in everything and to adhere stricktly to the word of God. in adittion, [A] is going through the Bible showing [B] specific issues. the main one is the whole womman issue. the thing is, i am the spiritual counsel for [B] and a woman. that sets everything i say in conflict with the word of God, in [A's] eyes. [A] also has a problem with the jesus freaks and has himself no set church.. he kinda hops around, finding fault in all of them. there's more... but we'll deal with this part first (the whole thing carries over into the leadership of the offenbar and to the hope house...)

At 21:53, Blogger Kelly said...

You are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus, for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Galatians 3:26-29

At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven.

Mathew 22:30 (an almost identical verse can be found in Mark 12:25)

I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you by the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel— which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ. But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned! As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let him be eternally condemned!

Am I now trying to win the approval of men, or of God? Or am I trying to please men? If I were still trying to please men, I would not be a servant of Christ.

Galatians 1:6-10

As I urged you when I went into Macedonia, stay there in Ephesus so that you may command certain men not to teach false doctrines any longer nor to devote themselves to myths and endless genealogies. These promote controversies rather than God's work—which is by faith. The goal of this command is love, which comes from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith. Some have wandered away from these and turned to meaningless talk. They want to be teachers of the law, but they do not know what they are talking about or what they so confidently affirm.

We know that the law is good if one uses it properly. We also know that law is made not for the righteous but for lawbreakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious; for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers, for adulterers and perverts, for slave traders and liars and perjurers—and for whatever else is contrary to the sound doctrine that conforms to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which he entrusted to me.

1 Timothy 1:3-11

The elders who direct the affairs of the church well are worthy of double honor, especially those whose work is preaching and teaching. For the Scripture says, "Do not muzzle the ox while it is treading out the grain," and "The worker deserves his wages." Do not entertain an accusation against an elder unless it is brought by two or three witnesses. Those who sin are to be rebuked publicly, so that the others may take warning.

I charge you, in the sight of God and Christ Jesus and the elect angels, to keep these instructions without partiality, and to do nothing out of favoritism.

Do not be hasty in the laying on of hands, and do not share in the sins of others. Keep yourself pure.

1 Timothy 5:17-22

The sins of some men are obvious, reaching the place of judgment ahead of them; the sins of others trail behind them. In the same way, good deeds are obvious, and even those that are not cannot be hidden.

1 Timothy 5:24-25

2 Peter 2 (I didn't want to post the whole chapter. lol)

I can't say it any better than scripture can. But, so you know my reasons behind these verses, I will say this :

It sounds like [A] is not teaching well, and probably shouldn't be teaching anyone at all.

At 04:40, Blogger cate mcmillan said...

ok, so you said alot about false teachers... that won't get me far in talking to one. or to his followers. i know that he is misinterpreting scripture. the thing is, i need the nitty-gritty proof. i need to be able to say to [B] "hey man, but did you know...."

At 09:14, Blogger Kelly said...

Actually, I also said stuff about causing controversies, being divisive, teaching doctrine that is unsound, and not being sound enough in doctrine to be teaching at all

At 09:18, Blogger Kelly said...

AND, about how he should be careful in bringing accusations. (There is a method for that spelled out somewhere. I believe in 1 Timothy, but I don't remember..... I remember we were talking about it in Bible Study.)

I also pointed out that Paul says "the sins of some men are obvious". Meaning that the sins of others are hidden or are not imediatly seen. (my spelling is worse than anyone's english) Paul encourages us to keep going even when someone is acting like that.


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